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NickS (WA)'s avatar

I don't disagree with any of that but a few thoughts at seeing it laid out that way.

1) It seems likely that Musk is breaking down in one way or another but

2) They way that Trump is currently behaving it's hard to see how the plan could ever have worked. What sort of "insurance" would have been enough?

3) On some level I assume that Musk believed, as many rich people did, that Trump wouldn't seriously imperil the market, and that bet has failed.

4) Slightly tangential, but one of the scariest news stories I've read recently is this: ("Corruption Has Flooded America. The Dams Are Breaking" -- https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/opinion/trump-corruption.html )

It isn't scary because of the news that Trump is corrupt; I believed that already, it's scary to consider just how well it's working for him: "Trump has more than doubled his personal wealth since starting his 2024 election campaign. Billions of foreign dollars have flowed into his family’s real estate and crypto ventures."

It's scary to think both that the message Trump is receiving isn't one of caution but that, in fact, his behavior is extremely successful, and also that anyone watching him might believe that's a good model to follow.

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Gerald Fnord's avatar

Maybe Musk went wrong by drinking the {Rothbard-Hoppe-Moldbug Thought} Kool-Aid® about how ownership creates responsible action in an autocrat.

I am not at all certain, and could well be wrong—I'd guess that more likely Musk could still be on the 'libertarian'/liberal side of the divide with the Alt-Fash—but, given that he sees himself as a very rich man very well equipped to make good decisions, and quite possibly thinks the same of the rest of the PayPal® Mafia™, and that those self-interested 'good decisions' benefit society-at-large, that Trump must or might be so, rather than the pillager he is by nature and ethic.

It would be a little like the experience recounted by numerous people young in the 1960s: 'I remember the first long-haired guy I couldn't trust….'.

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sPh's avatar

What "benefit to society at large" exactly? The fantasy slave colony on Mars? Raining down rocket parts on nations that don't have the resources to fight back? Empowering the white power and male supremacist fraternities on Twitter?

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Gerald Fnord's avatar

I think he's done actual good in encouraging electric vehicles' popularity and in some of his space-work, since the State has been slacking at its responsibilities in both wises, but more to the point I was writing about how _he_sees_ his actions (and I'm guessing the PayPal® Mafia's) as evidence that rich men are basically responsible and make good decisions*, and so isn't prepared for actually dealing with Trump.

*I know that he is not and does not, and also that he's _sure_ that he is and does. Self-deception is extremely powerful…or so I tell myself, so surely it's so.

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sPh's avatar

Ah. Appreciate the clarification.

I'll note also though that the Paypal Mafia includes Thiel, who is as dangerous as Musk and Trump think they are (I would put Thiel on a level of danger to mankind equal to Putin).

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Gerald Fnord's avatar

Yes, he is so, and I am sure that he sees himself as a benefactor of Mankind…something I hope to recall whenever _I_ just want what's best for Humanity….

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Dismantling Our Greed Economy's avatar

Vivek Ramaswamy was interested in making policy changes. Musk forced him out and didn't pursue policy. That proved that Musk was not interested in improving government efficiency.

It appears Musk tried to decimate the IRS to avoid paying taxes, but spectacularly failed when his choice of IRS director was rejected, which lead to him physically attacking Treasury Secretary Bessent, and Musk being asked to leave.

Musk originally called for "small government revolutionaries". DOGE continues to be the Department Of Government Entropy. Musk took a chainsaw to as much of the federal government as he could with a narcissistic lack of empathy to the death and aggressive incompetence that followed.

Musk's damage by tapping into our government databases remains an existential threat to our collective personal and financial privacy and assets. Or do you think that none of Musk's top high-IQ computer geeks don't know how to make a back door into those databases?

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Gerald Fnord's avatar

I assumed that the 'policy' is 'starve the Beast' with a side of 'break its legs first'.

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glc's avatar

In essentials, I believe, he is very much what he ever was.

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sPh's avatar

Duncan Black at Eschaton has been documenting Musk's failure to deliver for a decade at least. And the racism and childish anti-authority attitude was on full display during 2020.

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sPh's avatar

Occam's Razor: Musk is a deeply stupid person who got lucky on bets funded with OPM and who lies a lot. He took over someone else's work at Tesla, did a good job promoting it, but by 2019 was bored, adamantly refused to bring in experienced auto industry people to guide it through the maturation stage, and planted the seeds of Tesla's destruction within 5 years (although they got a 2 year extension of the timeline due the COVID19 pandemic).

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Craig Collier's avatar

I was a parched creature searching for a fresh stream of economic history. I'm a fan. Not always of content but the style fits the narrative.

I had to get a big cup of coffee and enjoy this one.

Maybe in South Africa where anglo divinity is in the formula from the cradle, ambiguity isn't in the environment. Most Gods don't tolerate it, especially if the god originates in a bottle and is seen in the mirror.

It is absolutely a world economy. If you're going to jump in, then it's essential to unpack the handicaps and strap on a world of experience. Ego and ketamine should be the first to go.

The impoverishing fact for us all is that there is a 'world of Trump' where everyone breathes delusion/chaos. Ketamine equals a degree in international econpmics and ego is the truth of the day. Tariffs rule -

'Intrinsic' is a value that could be applied to the world economy. It can't be applied to contemporary politics. There is no essential guiding value. Applying the deceit of politics to any momentum creates the 'Tommy Tuberville' effect - send more money and I promise absolutely nothing will happen.

Delusion cannot be intrinsic especially if you're a God

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Mark Talarico's avatar

Still can't get my puny brain around how Trumpolini got reelected after the 2016-2020 train wreck.

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Kent's avatar

Yesterday, a MAGA-ite told me that the Trump-Musk fight was just for show in order to get lefties back to liking Musk and buying his cars again. Proof that conspiracy theories can bridge any contradiction.

Some people handle failure better than success. Also, stay off drugs.

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Nancy Kirsch's avatar

The fable “the frog and the scorpion” emerged sometime in the first half of 1920. I don’t think that qualifies as a fable, but more as a propaganda story.

I think the scorpion was interpreted as postwar Russian regimes are a biting scorpion, and Very Good westerners should not trust them. Think of all the times someone in U.S. has said Russia is an Evil Empire. Was that type of name calling done by Russian governments?

I also wondered about the biological origins of this fable, because I thought scorpions are only found in dry deserts, and not in Russia. A search revealed that they do, but are not in a very large area. But, also, there are poisonous frogs in Russia.

There are various interpretations of that fable about snakes also. The moral story of them is that if help is not really wanted or needed, do not help them. I once found a hibernating snake(not poisonous) when cleaning the yard. It was covered up by leaves, and not moving. I had to move it so that it would not get mowed over. I found another pile of leaves to put it in, and covered it up with leaves. It would be a bad thing to warm it up, then put it back outside to freeze to death.

We do not have poisonous snakes in this area of the upper Midwest. An added note for historians- one of the factors that was very good in this area for early settlers is most of it is free of poisonous snakes.

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JH's avatar

In reading this article and the WSJ, it occurs to me that self actualization by wealthy men tends to increases inequality. https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury-homes/contemporary-home-renovation-michigan-2fc7c559?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1 Nobody NEEDS a million dollar whisky wall. OTOH if you self actualize by fighting disease or building libraries, (Gates and Carnegie) maybe not so.

As Robert Heinlein used to say "there is no such thing as a free lunch." Maybe there is only a zero sum game. History seems to refute this idea though, because progress is real. Or more specifically, progress has been real so far. But if progress has its limits, (the so called "great filter,") Heinlein might be right after all. Time will tell.

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