I—I just find it—and I know I use the phrase more than I've used it ever my whole career—un-American. It's un-American. It's not who the hell we are. What are they talking about?...
Is lying for some purpose "Un-American"? It seems to me there is more than adequte evidence that it is practsed by all social strata from street peddlars to POTUS. Trump may do it more than most, and hurt more people than most (he doesn't care) but I don't see it as Un-American any more than a sketchy car salesman trying to sell you a "lemon". It might even be as "American" as apple-pie.
Everyone lies so it doesn't matter? All lies have the same weight of consequences? There's no diference between "I didn't do it" and "Billy did it" as lies?
No. Have you never been lied to by a corporate exec, a lie with consequences? Did the lies of past presidents, e.g. Bush II (and his administration) not have serious consequences for the US? US history is replete with lies that had consequences. Billy may do small lies, although may have serious consequences for someone else), but this just suggests it is a common practice from the lowest to the highest. This may not be a particulat American trait, but it is hardly "Un-American".
I have been lied to. It was noteworthy, because it was unusual. And most of them were of the nature of “lie to cover my own ass” rather than “lie to get someone else in trouble”.
I’m not shocked when someone lies, but it still is a negative. What’s un-American are lies that make large swaths of other Americans worse off.
Doesn't your definition include lies to get the country into a war? Most recently, nukes and chemical weapons in Iraq. Or what about carbon dioxide emissions NOT causing global heating? (Or previously, tobacco companies claiming smoking was safe.) I would say that these examples "make large swathes of other Americans worse off", wouldn't you?
James K. Polk lied us into the Mexican-American War. I don't say that was a good thing overall, but it accomplished his goal: Acquire California. I think it's pretty clear that, 1) this was classic imperialism and 2) California was a big plus to the Union.
GW Bush's lies to get us into war with Iraq look shallow and petty by comparison, with maybe an equal death toll, and far fewer benefits for America.
The third war based on outright lies would be the Spanish American War, but there the main liar was WR Hearst, as best I can tell.
Lying is part of a politicians job, as far as I can see. But how they do it, in what circumstance, and to what effect matters a lot, and your first comment did not seem to recognize that.
I just want to see that motherfucking traitor swinging by his ankles from a gas station sign.
Is lying for some purpose "Un-American"? It seems to me there is more than adequte evidence that it is practsed by all social strata from street peddlars to POTUS. Trump may do it more than most, and hurt more people than most (he doesn't care) but I don't see it as Un-American any more than a sketchy car salesman trying to sell you a "lemon". It might even be as "American" as apple-pie.
Everyone lies so it doesn't matter? All lies have the same weight of consequences? There's no diference between "I didn't do it" and "Billy did it" as lies?
Is that your position?
No. Have you never been lied to by a corporate exec, a lie with consequences? Did the lies of past presidents, e.g. Bush II (and his administration) not have serious consequences for the US? US history is replete with lies that had consequences. Billy may do small lies, although may have serious consequences for someone else), but this just suggests it is a common practice from the lowest to the highest. This may not be a particulat American trait, but it is hardly "Un-American".
What kind of work do you do? Through what corporation or institution?
Does your employer know you feel this way? Do you lie only to customers or clients, or do you also lie to colleagues and supervisors? Law enforcement?
Let’s see some accountability. You’ve already admitted to being a crook. The question remains whether you’re a felon or just a cheap crook?
I have been lied to. It was noteworthy, because it was unusual. And most of them were of the nature of “lie to cover my own ass” rather than “lie to get someone else in trouble”.
I’m not shocked when someone lies, but it still is a negative. What’s un-American are lies that make large swaths of other Americans worse off.
Doesn't your definition include lies to get the country into a war? Most recently, nukes and chemical weapons in Iraq. Or what about carbon dioxide emissions NOT causing global heating? (Or previously, tobacco companies claiming smoking was safe.) I would say that these examples "make large swathes of other Americans worse off", wouldn't you?
James K. Polk lied us into the Mexican-American War. I don't say that was a good thing overall, but it accomplished his goal: Acquire California. I think it's pretty clear that, 1) this was classic imperialism and 2) California was a big plus to the Union.
GW Bush's lies to get us into war with Iraq look shallow and petty by comparison, with maybe an equal death toll, and far fewer benefits for America.
The third war based on outright lies would be the Spanish American War, but there the main liar was WR Hearst, as best I can tell.
Lying is part of a politicians job, as far as I can see. But how they do it, in what circumstance, and to what effect matters a lot, and your first comment did not seem to recognize that.
Which is what I was responding to.
Can a president say WTF?